Extra Sauce Episode 4: Did "Shannon" Really Drown Or Just Go Over The Edge Of The Flat Earth?

Thursday, March 23rd

In this episode, Greg and Mike confront the possible reality that the Earth is flat with expert Mark Sargent and once again go "Behind The Ear Moth" with a song about a dog and a Beach Boy.  Get some Sauce right now!


Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Welcome to the extra sauce podcast and London. Responsiveness and would this jar of sauces. Red pill. This is going to be a weird when just a warning. Fighters should she knew if I I'm gonna start right off. And tell you that issue has become in the space of a day and a half bird or three days or whatever was since Monday. When the flat earth guy called the show is because he you've become a flat earth are all okay era era flatter I don't know things are starting to makes sense as well let me just say that I don't know do you smoke. Pay an ass load of of pots first of all you believe a lot of us about a mile. This is there is this is not so. Today on extras so us this particular episode of extra so us. We're gonna talk when Marc sergeant. Who is an advisor. To the flat earth the council leader got earth fellow plotters anxiety and what he's got his own thing go yes the zone as India and when it comes to the flatter at Paris today the man is. At that is at the very least wildly intelligent and and quite possibly completely insane however. As a timeline he has he is going to try to convince you. That the earth is flat so. I'm also very excited to tell you that we are going to go behind the earmarks. Where is the artist who is responsible. Or one of the most if not the most talked about earmarks ever on the on the Hill Man Morning Show and that's Henry gross. Glad I hit 1976. Was Shannon. So time and she was able to track him down he's living in Florida you up out of Florida like the rest of my concerns probably hangs Ella Bernie Higgins a lot of parity is also in Florida Bernie is a Floridian Tennessee does this member in good friends of Burt Reynolds and I tell you I'm. I gotta give the details on this but I'm thinking of a Muslim says dispute before we we talked to mark on and thinking of doing. A fund raiser for the great gill foundation. Where we get. Five or six or seven. Earmarked artists to come out and play there your month like Gerald and we're Martin fast TIL give me a mafia like earmarks. On Okaloosa Larry in my radio and whatever it is so I am and ask Henry if he's up for that. However. We begin. Would the advisor to the flat earth organization Tia Marc sergeant rule who'll you found. Because he's is an expert on this right when I know we we mentioned the Flat Earth Society on the air got healthier because of Shaq can't measure a lot of some people tweeting that mean some people emailed me and said you've you've got to don't talk to them yeah you talk to Marc sergeant he's the man well this this began let let's listen Shaq. At the beginning of the week who says he has a slap. I don't know there's there's truth to a bird blue blooded. During this work. And we call from Steve listener who insisted the earth was flat and and cellmark joins us right now and he's gonna convince all of us that we have been. Living. A a a long lie a lifelong lie when we got really cold when we're told school that the earth was round. We're being lied to you and mark thanks for being on extra socks they're you very much for having me. Lot of people think your bat (%expletive) crazy but I nominal. Actually you know what should know. It is becoming. Well now let's let's let's slowdown I've been reading up on this since you know we were right new we're gonna talk to you and and I don't know some of it to me it on the conspiracy theory kind of guy. Already out some of that to me is if freaks me out a little bit how much I I kinda by. Here you know we're you know as a skeptic but the whole. It closed dome thing how we get it we'll get into mark I wanted to ask you first. When did you when did you start to believe that the earth was flat like what when did when did you start to really believe this. If he needs might Jerry Maguire moment for the letters was February. 10 of 2015. Woke up in the middle of the night after looking at this thing and tried to debug because nobody likes it's a piece of crap theory. And everybody starts of the future reads I became a flutter here because they tried the deep ball flatter and I tried for months and months woke up on February 10 and to you know what. I could go the other way are numbered a series of videos and put it up on the Internet I guess if anybody challenges it. And honestly I thought for the first week or month or whatever I thought you know what some some scientists and academics gather gonna shoot this thing down a few seconds because that he's right it. Eat everyone knows it's an easy thing to be bought. And the exact opposite happens. You know massive amount of people are contacted me subject matter experts started calling in and I got that you're an appeal unsolicited I was interviewing all these people. They turned into a bar created a web site and Aston you know Hillary or your years later and now I'm putting video of the about how Shaquille O'Neal's not a letter of. Now let's figure out that's how discussions started on the morning shell and honestly I mean people were texting in. Act is like saying he explain why you're out on the ocean and the game and you can see essentially in the horizon and and and where the dude where it where it spills over and how do you explain that stuff oh. Shorter turn out there in the horizon line of course but that's the limits of your perception that you're your your vision only goes so far no would introduce you to. Would people say oh we need speed boat going over the Verizon but the more common thing he has like OK if you're what's changed that since the last time any any flatter things really come up and that a long long time since losing the topic. Find a camera like like a Coolpix 900 would like an eighty powered zoom. A bold move over the right and you he would go away great you'd you'd think it's gone and it governor right would you figured your camera and you can zoom and bring it back into frame. And you can do this again and again until finally the atmosphere gets so thick you know you can only see so marketing a growing greeting. 40% oxygen the record I can. They bit the bullet you don't vote should not be there and by that I mean if anyone listening. They're trying to figure that out what matters is if the curvature at eight inches per mile. Squared I know everyone he met so I'll do it for you that means that if every mile upon itself behind the eight inches so it's ten miles. It ten times ten which is a hundred tonnes to eight inches which is 800 agent there should be eight. Hundred injured the curvature and while edges get to work and work toward fifty miles for example. It should the fifty times fifty times eight which is roughly you're pushing 17100 feet of curvature. You should not the end it because it on the other side of the hill and yet we see objects Simon guy I'd I'd put a challenge out there a year ago is that why you object at Weston. 200 mile that we can't see. We can do is Chicago's skyline over Lake Michigan for the proper read anything do we pilots. Boulder I talked to a mental instructor. Who put the United States navy if we could yet we're we're painting targets with a beam radar. The ship the ship at fifteen nautical miles it which is about sixty miles on land is not mountains it's bigger. Is that impossible they cannot beat it 2000 feet of courage that we should not feel the pain the target. And so it just goes on and on and on clear that the right yet. Or I have also you mentioned. And in some suppose rooting you mentioned admiral Byrd and Antarctica. And then he would fly around in a plane and fly around in a plane and I'm thinking that people are flying around in planes all over. Earth but how do they not see how if it's flat how do they not see that the supposedly. In that predicted great question because a lot of people will say what you'll pilots would have to be another scientist Levin everybody in NASA would have been no nobody's gonna. It's sold big in anyone's trying to figure I don't know how you introduced suspect but it was kind of try to visualize this look. You were in and it is gonna blow people's heads open you're in a very very large version of the Truman show. Which can mean that if you know if if it is the term enjoy it no enclosed system that needs to grounded more or less perfectly flat. All the pilots but I talked to the air traffic control the flight instructors military Barroso and they've also the same thing but look when you get up to altitude. Yeah we all know we also be a very perfectly flat horizon. But were talked since were kids that it's a glow so it's this weird paradox it's like okay how you know that curved it. And the pilot they they ought detail they've been been here go you know. We missed it because we're too busy it's like what if we get we've we start pointing and blame and point B nobody guys that the good paper pilot to fit. So he'd be basically I'd like we don't we don't worry about it and the ones that do according gonna tell. So no empire would know full well what they're looking up there sort of flat horizon but they can't they can't directing upstart. So no I didn't listen I mean it's you're you're either wildly intelligent carrier complete nut job Kook I mean I got the day. The key this don't theory of let's get into this because we mentioned briefly at the start. If you think that we're under we're living under an enclosed. Dohmann enclosed world. Yeah yeah they take your pick as far as terminology you wanted to say tour area planetarium. It's no globe wildlife preserve amusement park ride. Sports stadiums that really you know I didn't have to be high working its notebook can be a very very shallow stadium because. You know our civilization only lives from sea level to about maybe one mile up at about 5000 feet that 95% of our population and even that barrier this thing the operator distinguished fool would say a couple thousand mile high. That's still very shallow in terms the grants you the thing. And people they won't you know the edge you're talking about the idea to the world go and Ambon seem to the United States and the Soviet Union. During operation deep three and 1956. Were looking for that fact they had feel perhaps they try to figure out they look for thirty years that Wilbur wood down. Looking in Antarctica for thirty years from 1928 of the 1956. They've found is welcome that want to pointed to the way here and it's not like the caught wind of Antarctica you have to really really go and went to find that the the outer marker of respect. And once they found it they sealed off Antarctica forever and that's that it's one of the greatest secrets that bit nobody no look look look up the Antarctic treaty you know not hidden documents away. And protect mark what what did you signed. If on the edge it looked in my opinion it he was. See. If provided the margin of course but there's a lot of people the community go go go what did they crown owned. The barrier a wall effects. The U wanna call the game of the game at home while no wonder what it's made out of we have no for an idea Peter could get heavy element heavy water frequency of forced electromagnetic we don't know. What once they found that they realized OK we can't let anyone near it thanks so they basically created a treaty. That'd be the most impenetrable treaty of all time all countries have to sign that's what you can and economic power that that you if you have a corporation. You are not allowed to setup shop in Antarctica. Ever forever it's not even up for debate that was from ninety did not bankrupted beat until 2041. And that there and we'd be a better rate is so many eyebrows in our communities would look. It greed money power that rules the world and you're telling me my corporation might might oil company no matter who are bridegroom who will Gregory palm. I can't go down there not not not buying it. Abdullah bird ever same thing amount or was he silence. What. That's another note the great question because he will look you know down there from 928 up until his last mission in 1956. And then he died in 1957 and that you don't from. Probably at his home from a heart failure. You look at the guy when you watch his interview in 1954. When he went on the the CBS show long Jean caught a scope and upon you to look at. In what he's talking about Antarctica is going to be it's hard all the resources that he can. View the world for a long time to come and ever believed to be fighting over you perfectly healthy to me. You and yeah yeah I'm sure he was a man of integrity you know what youngest admiral the United States native although I'm probably the greatest explorer ballpark. And yet if I think they look at him and said yeah he's not gonna keep quiet about. But you also said though one of the one of the founders of NASA one of their main scientists. He died he left a clue on his tombstone. Because supposedly he believed it would they were biblical. References right and two of those had all of Daniel closed or. So would she tell you that we just double cross that border on broad and some people know the name. VX not these scientists did you don't think again the net is an accident founded on that we still burning burning embers of the Nazi war machine. He when he died I thought he'd be he's he's great don't would have been a giant statue of him holding a rocket and pointing at the sky. But instead it was a very modest headstone in an only had three things. His name the year reborn here he died and abiocor interjected didn't even with the viral courses that sold 91 which say if you look it up it says in the parliament shows his handiwork. Why in the world with a father rocket science literally the rocket science it. Why would he be talking about a I don't structure why would he be talking about something it's cover. He would be one of the few people that would happen not ever use the guide it says in the fifties. That you were not going to move anytime so we have these three spacious the side of the Empire State Building. And he would do it we don't have the tech report and then and couple years later I don't know yet we can totally do it. Wal-Mart I mean listen I am adult. Like I didn't PI didn't even graduate from high school so it's explained to committee. I got runner or hit it I hope you're not working and another one now that it may be thrown out for us for this type of job that day. When when I see pictures of the earth from space it's round. Okay okay okay and where we're are I know we don't we don't have a ton of time so I will break this one down real quick court. First pitcher ever ever taken a direct sunlight you with the not secret information 1972. From Apollo seventeen the first. Picture of the bit of the dirt and full sound like. You got two things one you wonder why up all the way through politics team never took this picture but did you know when the second pitcher Bert what they can now. Took two years ago are not even two years ago. 43 years and they only use one picture of the earth from space UK law I don't know I can look up on the Internet and he's always been to the as a sick. I looked up near it and in 2000 just bird because I was I was looking for images of the year state literally there was only bad image took time and time again. The first iPhone that was really you probably remember this has the background of the your it was a blue marble shot. The guy did that need that in that literally made it and it Scott Simmons did have an audio interview where you go oh yeah I had a Photoshop it's not great data that you got broken and we're going to. Are you. So you're basically saying you're saying it's like. It's like every single person's dating profile like when their online. And they're using a picture from from twenty years right where you go let's go to. If they're really Hillary had shut up. A little luck it is it the meeting he's lack of things when you go to look at Neff could ever want to lean on NAFTA for this like I can do this prove it by Leno NASA. So many things that aren't they are now of course you're gonna have some light streams some footage here and there there's so much more that should be there that isn't. What's the biggest piece like the single biggest piece of evidence. That convinced you that the earth was flat. While it's really kind of compilation kind of like when you go to the mechanics. And and they say well you know when you look when you buy another car laser what a lot of little things that are wrong that. If I depicts two things for people who look that they can cut themselves or look at themselves I would I've won on the ground Wednesday. The curvature. What is a big one for me once I started getting going with this net of the eight inches per you know when you when you go out of the water. And you think you see curvature back you want to see the curvature I I thought people they don't know what computer curvature of the beach and like no no they can't important people mountaintop know very can't. Or an airplane or go OK fine and I put the challenge of their eighteen months ago to look tell me. Did he use it that you don't don't dig up on come on like take a picture yourself putting on a laptop per hole the straight edge to it helped me to believe it occur if you give curve then. You sent it to me I will quit quit letter. It it never happened I can assure you ballooned footage you know and on that shot land building that Red Bull Felix Baumgartner crap. I didn't 121000. Feet it is perfectly black. That that idea that the browns the browns that you can tap into go to a beach right now and be that captured or look leadership in the distance and crank your your Zuma on under fault. The other one is a question that would never answered which gives roomy which is the bad Allen radiation belt. Which really you know and out in 1959 by then Allen himself and yet. He's deadly things never people cannot go through them you will about that that would that I don't think. And yet Apollo way through all of seventeen went round trips to remove them. Nobody died severe radiation toward nobody got cancer. And when you look at and after we tried. You act now to what shielding did you use radiation you can protect yourself to where you can let it breathe new gold. Tactic. What she'll be interviewed. Because it you have it you couldn't you couldn't do what you can't put up really you can't shield a capsule with a super heavy metal it's like putting an anchor and not rocket you don't do. And they know whatever point they eat it this. And is it okay that the Republican been if letter of okay go to Q and it's simple what they can find the computer and groups do not match the dot gov or just woke up a video called alliance trial by fire. But the video they put together one local NB it NASA they would on television where they talk about the Ryan project how they're gonna go to Mars. But they have this weird section in there where they were talking of like oh yeah we got to figure out how we're gonna get through the van Allen radiation belt. Because they and Bergkamp who ran a lot of young man can we haven't solved this problem with a van Allen belt the radiation problem it. I think what you're talking you you saw minority all the inspectors and he's the Q what were even talking about that. There's builder just two instances where I point people out so much stuff out there but the pirate well. Well no listen I mean honestly if I could talk forever and I we've I honestly. You know we were laughing about discussion on on the morning show. I'm intrigued by and I say I mean I now say and I guys I'm intrigued by it and I think those that are enjoying the extra sauce on this would probably like to go to your website so you might want in my quoted. Area. The easiest weight I'm not gonna to promote white stuff just goalie and huge YouTube and type in flatter if you wanna be my stuff type in flattered clues. And the web site called enclosed world dot com letter could have been turned into an audio book turned live all the languages. And dig and lit built don't think for a second that Shaq in three month inquiry. And I won't white people leader Richard Jefferson that he's a big this year the law that did not a fluke. Veal beef was a fluke last year maybe but not now it is thinking just get bigger and bigger. Well thanks for joining us under the dome you're out here I'm not here I exercise I I I suspect. There will probably have you on another upcoming episode of exercise because I what you're. People are going to be entry mark so nice thank you Alison you're not currently in living in an an insane asylum or anything like. Well you know darn early right as we speak I have been Victoria Canada but I grew up in the Seattle area and and spent. Twenty years the in Colorado teaching people software. All right well thanks Wallace man thank you we'll talk to again. A purple black okay cuckoo. What are we honest I don't know Gregor of us are to absorb some of those send us. If it's somehow making sense the Antarctica stuff is it yes and that treaty. If you read about it because everyone's scrambling now that the polar caps are melting down drill for oil around the North Pole yeah nobody seems to be going on Antarctica but that's the end. That's what they're saying that's a mark was saying he's not jobs they're saying the end of the world that her defense right right parent Antarctica if he stepped over you'd you'd fall off in another galaxy or another. That's a yes assault is that all corn and you would because you Wear an enclosed world order we're on the current all right so you hit the you would hit the dome. Now I don't know Greg. And he's on something is my mama say about it now I know what I'm I maybe on Sunday myself now sort of makes. I believe that this will lead to further discussion yes Ed that's at some point now. MI to understand. That we got. New announcer guy named to do an official intro for behind the earmarks. I don't think since is went so well we we should have won via do you think that new announcer guy is is is is growing on people lord give a do you think there's still a lot of frustration with a the level led the deep this in his voice I know nobody likes change it yes you know and it and it's hard sometimes you're so used to someone I don't like new announcer guy. I think it's kind of a breath of fresh share cash well you know here especially in New England. Now changes never received well you know we live in interesting times and yet people don't wanna be. Spoken to and it in man and a deep voice if they don't they want they want everything to be easy and comforting and a and I think he's done a great job you know and and I think maybe you weaken invite him here yeah and we did send a mile will be and then at Enron and a party must suck up. How are healthy that might change some things and I do I I do wanna point out. That we were not going to go back to back episodes of exercise. Which is behind the earmarks. But this opportunity presented itself and it was impossible to say no I was in no one there was no way that we are gonna say now. So let's go behind it the year mosque. Extra sauce part. I quite possibly. At the most talked about earmarked ever played on the morning show was she Yemen. Bye bye artist's name Henry grow yen and it was it sung in 1976. And in case you haven't heard it. Here's a little bit it hook right now. And it's about. Dog who died and I and I think what we discovered that during the show there were some who were alarmed. That there was a songwriter about that about a dog died right how could be such a huge. In fact we'll discuss this with Henry but there's one legendary. Radio announcer in history who was very upset that there was a song about a dog dying. But. Mike Hsu is tracked down Henry. And the song is written about Carl Wilson of the beach boys and the death of his dog and Henry. Joins us right now for a little extra sauce on the earmarks Shannon. Oh I'm sorry and not hear it or not written. A good spot when the money it is a pleasure. To have the artist responsible for one of the most talked about earmarks on our program on the podcast and we're gonna get a little exercise street today. About the legendary Shannon and IE. You know I have never had a response like that. Of of the listeners the first time that I played she NN and I I shared with everybody Kazaa and listen I. Love of finely crafted pop song commences that's that's my thing and in 1976 I was ten years old. I ran down to wars in in Maynard and I about the 45 as soon as I heard it. And Maynard rectitude yes yes but do you Allard didn't Maynard you do now. I've lived in Maynard I think gonna have to there's two children. Who played violin. Exit for end basis for Jonathan Edwards just like when my dear friend. And or so in the count that toward Mitt thought Bob berg. It's a great story can I would. Eyewitness slipping one night I wore a walk up in the morning and I heard the most relieving the piano playing it ever hurt my wife and I thought we streamed. Brett and I look at this and it was still hopper who want to playing on Shannon plug into something and everything else what you was that do you demeanor. I am probably 1971. Pulse could lecture on I 97 B a that we want to be that much. Obama got in out. In. In in. Or seventy and then. And went out and and and moved up to block the. Do you remember at the wall worse that was right downtown that's race to go by my 45 so it would might paper route money every week. Not pop my recollection of Maynard was this growing number Concord river. I mean I could go. I think that could they were that you could wreck he could rent rubles. And I would just grow indefinitely I lost thirty pounds is great actually got a career. It is. Well I played. We discussed the fact that the song is about the death of the dog of Carl Wilson of the Beach Boys. You know the only part that didn't cry with Casey case the speaker. Yes yes no we gotta talk about that till what how how did you end up. At who that total tell us the story about writing that song about Shannon. I'm doing what was it before it became good friends call. And I was in LA for some reason or other I can't remember and I would call power lunch you living right you'll be able local well. And we would have. You were throughout two. You know if you had a beautiful spread laid out. As I say and we might show one point hit wander I'll never know the papers like. Because before I could get a bite. It's giant Turkey dogs jumped up and not everything off the table and it had an eight decreasing unbelievable they act that table and he was so night. He could stop apologizing exit topple the worry about it I have a lunatic Irish Setter and home Cole chairman. And he said while he had a goal and Shannon was hit by car and killed not long before and he was very said the and so I got back to new York and I wouldn't sitting on the bed with Mike Shannon that thinking about call and I just you're the doctor wrote the song in about ten minutes. But in the song. Chairman and it drifts away see now is not hip by car right. Well you know our country and how you know he had gotten it doesn't matter the community you know it it if he picked the song you know. Artistic license. Yeah you know what and it was and it is what put 6 o'clock new equipment bought your ticket and decided what that even my choice. As I say to people I didn't write it. I wrote it down. What's that Carl Olson thanks to Shannon. Well. If you I mean accessible to track record it actually I wrote when I won't let what it is is right about the time if we we're gonna law. And I wrote the song and I and that if you look at those pictures same species it. Like the Sony made it look inside the shoe boxes yes and it first came out well I had one of those. And I recorded the song gonna be and wrecked our order and I sang it into the box. And at the end Shannon my Shannon balk. It was great. So I heard the call and I never heard a word. Nothing and and you know I wanted them to cut it. Of course you know I thought it would be great you know. And and never heard reported that is so I recorded it I try to you know I couldn't be true for a couple of months and here I was doing now I just saw the cut the so. We cut it had a big hit gotten it a year later you would is had you know been here all over the world and and and I thought automatic but he was that amazing accent if you're considered. Handling. Her cute song on the radio. It sounded so much better than that can piece of him. You know I never realize. What you meant or why he said that we look at the craziest thing anyway that's out that's. We all wonder about artists and ends and so you have a hit was Shannon in 1976. At and you make good money from something like champion of the record company situation the way it was back then and do you still get royalties today. I wouldn't know you've got you wouldn't know do you not get not only at. I didn't I wouldn't know I do not honor. Any of the publishing on my early work. Cologne no. I think I'm the writer. I wrote the law myself but I am not a publisher however I'm friends with regard to your publisher we get along fine and we split whatever comes and I guess. You mentioned the legendary. Casey case some rant in which that Casey in and we've we've we've bout we put Oregon up. We'll report and a little rough and hit my way we put you know case we played it millions of times in the shell important here and in that case at all. You played the orbiter Barbara wouldn't be where your car port built up. Ominous than you some cash after this podcast on and write check after his bag but these are bomb. Jaycee was this. I'm Casey case of Jaycee was pissed because he had to play she NN. After an upbeat Pointer Sisters song and so here wanna play a dead a dead dog song in a dead dog request after an upbeat song on a I. I want somebody users and brain cannot come out of a damn record. That is that sets up camp when I got to talk about a dog dying. It made it it made by sought out so appealing for the lifting public. Truth the truth of the matter is I quote I caught a lot of lacked. When I did this song because I had done what needs something which as you know a rock and roll record still stands and I get. Hundreds of letters a year of people that I love that record and so. I I think Shannon because it did I was sport compete what I was in that frame of mind I was thinking you know still Specter and Brian. And I and that song as springtime mama did after it. Get a court through my head and I and I did a lot of people really don't count me and so corneas. If you're. Family members parents grandparents. Dog the you know I think people have realized that it was a legitimate thing to write about an important thing to write about. The only thing that rivals that when it comes to animals and emotion is wild fire. Now you know Gloria. Well fireplace and then we had hound book. Had helped us to let toward the end of the week bills eight a couple of that the how many times would you guess you've played Shannon. I'm not. Sure. There's another one and yeah I don't know yeah I can get one little thing that my wife has we war every gate tell how always gone yeah yeah. Like on your iPhone every now I get there. Every time I get that he would have to go full that it it shouldn't be quick. A lot and I never once saw it and I didn't when I wasn't proud of it but you know it's funny because you. People thought that there will be people corruptly and move quick and I really love your song good. I'm thinking of thumb I've had this idea in my head as a benefit from my foundation I'm thinking of putting together. A special earmarks show in which we feature. Shannon and and we end and I am wondering if you come to Boston and play alive at the show I. Are we then we've come to borrow yes and it's up to Boston for the springtime yes. Well that Henry and I think our. Idea till I do to Henry thank you. For taking us behind the ear month when it comes to Shannon and I am hoping that may be ill as he started already. Maybe he'll sing us out with those who are those a little bit more Shannon. Or. Who you met her and maybe even. Well oral or written. Special thanks Henry grows for taking us behind the year mosques and to Marc sergeant or convincing us that the earth is flat. And thanks field fuel you loyal human beings fearless. Into the extra sauce podcast if you like what you heard. Then please subscribe to podcast on iTunes. Who will play horse picture and while you're there. So you and I keep our jobs please leave parading. Believe we've grade rating please please and help spread the extra sauce moralists and don't fall over the edge now. Be careful that.