Extra Sauce Episode 38: The Staircase and The Owl Theory

Friday, June 22nd

The Staircase is the hottest murder-mystery docu-series to hit NETFLIX and the story isn't as simple as one might think. After Kathleen Peterson died after allegedly falling down a flight of stairs, her husband Michael Peterson is investigated for possibly having a part in her death. However, in this episode of "Extra Sauce", Greg and Mike speak with their neighbor, Attorney Larry Pollard, who believes that Kathleen's injuries are more in line with that of an owl attack that could have actually happened!

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Welcome to the extra songs podcasts. On the offensive sauce. We've bizarre Red Sox series. Red pill. My favorite kind of broadcast news to issue one of those one of the ones in which we are discussing. True crime and now your zest I am I think you're detective and a former life. Well I was able to get away with several crimes in which I stole food come from various a convenience stores are growing up so that's probably what it's all about but. I have been obsessed as have many of you would be staircase on Netflix and that documentary. Details. A an incident that record in Durham, North Carolina. And which. A man named Michael Peterson was charged with murdering his wife when she was found. I him. It's it at least that's what he said at the bottom of the staircase and in and issues she was buddy Ian and horrible scene and there is an attorney who is joining us today. On extra sauce named Larry Rudolph named Larry. Larry Pollard. Named. There's an attorney who's joining us today on extra sauce named Larry Pollard. Who has a theory that I think is the most interest in theory have ever heard about how. Mrs. Peterson actually die I think because it makes cents yeah I it really does yeah. But it's but it's amazing so those who were Indus their case. You're gonna enjoy what our next guest has this day and it is nice to have you on the show Larry. My pleasure appreciate the invitation. I'm addicted to it true crime. A while I'm addicted to Netflix but I'm also had I am addicted to television quite frankly but I'm addicted to true crime and I was riveted. By this story. Your neighbors that is cold in the staircase. And I was maybe even more riveted. When I learned. About your theory about what happened fruit for those who who haven't. Watched the staircase on Netflix. Tells the story of a novelist a of form or former mayor oral candidate and in Durham, North Carolina. Cool is charged with murdering his wife is name is Michael Peterson and he is charged with murdering his wife Kathleen. Not his claim is that she. Fell down the staircase. He is he goes to court and and is spoiler alert is convicted. However. You'll have a theory about what really happened and it it it does not involve murder and I'm wondering. How you came about this theory how how did you get started on this theory as a neighbor. Our October that is very book called I happened to be mr. Peterson's next door neighbor. At the time that happened and I have lived here in this neighborhood. Or seven the years. And that's that should. Acutely aware. Others surroundings. And some of awhile like we have here and things of that nature. It just being aware of your arms branding in your neighborhood so this city well that's an instance when that incident happened. I have it then hey. Yes there's a family reunion. There years prior to it. Where my hope we'll have our. Apologists to come to the family reunion. And bring. The birds of prey ball or program there to entertain the children at the reunion they had halts. I owls. I. Welcome to all kinds of different birds of prey and it was a very interesting program. And I watched it out of curiosity more than anything else. And I didn't think very much about it. Until. New years or thirty years later when the problem mr. Peterson came out. And during that power the political and it got. There's. The very beginning of the trial they showed the pictures of the worms. Are mrs. Peterson's. Kids. And I'll serve my goodness both look like bird tracts. And have them but they predictably bird trapped in and I thought well. You know maybe I should already or apologists we gave that program for the children of my favorite reunion. And ask personal questions about whether birds of prey. Yet human brain. And nor did any and all of them I didn't tell him that I was looking into what murder case Ernie thank god just was asking questions from and enlightenment. Let the process not found out that when. Birds of prey Everett hit human beings. Are going apologist. Our guests say they have been a lot afterward which ones do that she says owls all sit people. A great deal. Is all the being slain oh. And announce they're really. And she says yes describe Europe. Area Orlando. Where there are person. Who was injured. And not sit well. There's a lot of large land around there are a lot of large well there's there's a swimming pool revelation. Well that's what we all look load reached a war. As awarding me the breakfast a war. Issues. All the birds of prey in that are in and around these neighborhoods. They're usually hanging out not a war the war and the reason for that is that. Little vermin and mice rats and rabbits and squirrels all the little things that. I alcohol. And things of that nature he don't. Also need water but it just like human beings they got to have a simple war and they know that that they. They get attacked. A hall. So all of a wait until the darkness of the night the run over to a warmer source. Get a break war and then run back in the cover of the bridges of the undergrowth for whatever. And I don't realize that but the album hanging around their war or also. And then writing this in the movement. And they usually it's the movement of the color white. Meaning that they lack of so I just go out there walks. Or a rabbit with the white tail or is well with the belly. Or numerous little things of that nature that might reflect light. In contrast. There the black oil or Reynolds. There are there to get their meals that's what is going in nature of tell me about owls sort of I'm aware that we have those kind of birds in our neighborhood. And do they ever heal people in Orlando they don't really attacked people that much. They they have a home. And they cut them I received. That people are getting hit by als usually receive. Large. Deep gash just to the back right corner of their hit with such as horse. They're usually knocks him to the ground. Red doesn't it opened it cut the and as a result they have bloody gash whether all proper of their hit all part of your head is where you have the really large. Blood vessels. These blood vessels are severed. And I at all coming in at around thirty mile an hour. And slamming into the back of this person here. And making their talents which are needle sharp. All the way down to those full blown. Which is up artists there. In the human body because it protects the brain. And the day. Yet. Scarborough let's stop. It would bankrupt and they have a tremendous gripping or spoke also with special tendon that indelible part of their legs. In the Arab Brothers so to speak. And we day yet and insert the impact. They see how well and there's tendon. Polls there our own. At about 280 pounds of pressure or legal point oh actually a little for the digit. When that happens. They create these terrible. All wounds on the back of the persons may have whoever gets there. Well I remember that in the evidence that was presented at trial. That the words were on the back Birkhead. This happened that night time. There was just where local forest yeah. I sent them right because similarities here I don't think I would go and see if there's any. Relevance to about hunch but I might there and I went out to a local museum we have here in although. Of north Carolina museum of life and science but they directed me to the north Carolina museum. Natural sciences in Raleigh, North Carolina. And I will over the years and this is a very very. Our museum. One of the best in the country and there were very instrumental. In helping me formulate what I call the Al here. All the best I didn't have any real group I have a approved by the much. Well I went down to the library. At that particular museum the first broke out opened in the proper. Were government abrupt about main name yet but promised by him being out or beer or and that's been so long or can't exactly remember the back nine. But he was terribly original book writers and retaining hoop while trials. And when I opened their power grid the paragraph that says when Al strike people. Very very bloody gash where it. Solve. And I thought oh my goodness this is. What's happening timely relevant. Giving some expert testimony from those treated is they're. And then they talk about how we normally people don't bad day yet help. And that's what people don't really adapt from these were these birds of prey. Even though they hit people they don't really still be more and Al have never really been the type of bird. That killed people but they do hit people and caught people. And that's what we're trying to say you have to under stand. There were. And they are you in so all this crap. Associates Larry she's out side. And going inside. And the owl. The towel attacks. And she is injured and she is bleeding and she goes inside. And in fact there is evidence. Which we'll talk about a second with regard to the owl feathers and things. That are dead that did that are on her. But then. Is that your is that you're theory that Kathleen. Is trying to get help so then she falls again on the stairs. Where are less than it was very badly parodies in investigating. This case. All the atom bashing certain things were put back but they got the blood trail backwards. Very that that mr. Peterson. It could be in theater Tibet. In the bottom of that standard mail in there and running out of those ads were about forty yards carrying. It back foot. Let the the Pope would look at who. Britain. All the way out to the circular. Well why not solve the police videotape. That they've being that that happened. It clearly shows. That when the police are they walked down the brick steps from brought. Regular drop in front of them as they spot of blood Warren small spot of blood on the brick wall way. That leads from the circular drive on the net. Street side of the property. Moving towards the back door war which is actually the the more that they use is by as their front doors kind of confusing but it would think about it is just circular drive and and they go to the main door of the house. There right leg out there were two of landing him on the front door and there's another drop of blood. Ever landing and there's bread and back out. Of the door casings. And when the cameraman walks it and that I house. They were able put camera around there's no blood on how many metals or any thing there and there's no distortion. Are things being turned overlooked and are proprietor or anything like that always turns it around at about. Not any degree angle. Then Ricardo about 45 PPP. Usually mrs. Peterson. And she is lying in a pool of our own blood that. Now that tells you a lot about this whole incident is the fact that the pool of blood is the pool that she's sitting. That's where the blood trail Indians not Wear it again it begins. With one drop in about it as a self respecting beer honor. Barber's is we call here in the south knows that when you shoot a beer run ball most of the that'll drop in their tracks. And the way you build it back injured Beers to walk over to the spot where that there was being when you're shopping. And then you start walking by land. Towards the spot where he went into the words. And how long that little area a lot of rather close to where we're standing. You will normally. The drop of blood that is the first. Drop that comes out of de worm the enrages them engaged and dropped to the Bryant. If you Walt that land towards the words you. Another drop and then. More drops any drop will give you a little bit more but you know felt. Part of the bodies yet how bad the weather is coming out etc. And then if you continue to follow are responsible. You'll ultimately get to about. Body of the beer and he'll be laying. In a pool of his own. Because that's where all the bad is coming out into polluting bears not being spread all around cooling. In the same principle. I suspect in this case and that is that blood trails far Al Assad and that puts it in the realm of where that Al all. Now Larry Sutton the investigators found. Owl feathers. On your cap on Kathleen spotty correct. Investigators did not them that's not correct what happened was this is Peterson. When you know three people. Got to the house. And that also that she was dead in the world. And they let David and as soon that there had been a beating there was a rush to judgment of the murder and all those epic the all the all the spots. On the walls of blood. They haven't gotten a book called. Themselves. We have pebble. Four Russians didn't get outside and she's running inside of the house and democratic to get help. And then she banged into the bottom of that spirit. That they put her body into a body bag. And then out of they are usually pictures that are coming out a little birdie from the trials. And they put it in person and take it to. Chapel Hill a mile away but the autopsy and find out what at what killed her. When they get an over the of the medical examiner. That was about it with Bernie and opens her left hand and then opens her right hand. And then each of the hands bank. You rent harriers. And they have been poor and Al Bob they root ball. That's called antigen and sometimes they don't have achieved the bottom of airship that would indicate being yanked Al proper course. Well. When you're out there that medical examiner says pop pop pop I think we've got that third of the door and make obeyed mr. Peterson payers. He correctly. Thank all of Bayer from the right hand and all the hair left pane of put them in an envelope fuels we are blow. And shipped it over the Raleigh north. That state bureau of investigation. Laboratory. That haven't analyzed. Under a microscope. Now she doesn't. What are those payers should just like she's got bloody care now. So Blair over the air bag handle look at them right ever. That's the and endurance. All the power and third page of the first trade evidence to report. The first page ever. Third place is that what page is the case slap at 38. Reaches. I regret it says. Low current head of hair consistent with that of the victim. And it shouldn't be ready banner and it's printed in English language you don't have to do any calculating or anything else. I let and I asked that it be out person who did the analysis with a microscope. I was bliss be sure that was a bad. And tell me Apollo and I've looked at everything they're looking at all the president are in the past forty years here. And get back here you without the other. It stopped that it thank you very much how to bury you and I am not an expert witness how bout of that Mariah. Arnold we're asked to look at bat slap. And we came back to and found out that fat slob was in the custody. The Borough police department. In the locker evidence locker we showed it to the district attorney. The reference to that particular. And we certainly would give it up their products and look at that very afternoon which he did. And we looked at it and had to hold it up to the light of fluorescent light to be able to create. Very very. That role. In an attempt similarly small. Ever that was all of this. We've got something here live at the all the howls all of the the not the only but are really species of birds of prey. That have bought it gross topic that others don't go all the way down their legs. Across their beat. Out there to lose lose that now. And they are so all. You can say yeah practically with the neck about you have to use democracy. And endurance. We will lose photograph these other and we wanna put it under democracy. The district attorney agreed that we called it an expert whip all microscopes a problem. Associated markers that are limited in Burlington. Mr. Taylor Paulson and it was excellent game immediately we put it under a microscope. And he had no trouble locating. Brooke rather. In addition to that. They lose they slap Iran now. And says oh my goodness look at. It that we got blue. Others. And that over near the age the slop. Today venue type a picture of at least say yes and he took a picture. And he says well we're probably at 400 power on the microscope. Would you like to go to an 800 power. I think yes indeed that would be interesting. So people throughout these additional bathers. And the use clearly say they have wrapped around the attache at. That hasn't been determined. To be mrs. Peterson air ship it back. Now. In looking at. That slide and and we're committed at 800 power you can clearly see that the bathers are wrapped around. But I am sure that partnership. Is much bigger and the god. Then there's the good bad at all. We've and then retractable limit portrayed almost and so being. End of the others there wrapped around it and I'll hop are but feathers are moving peddlers. Flute very. And it should have. All whereas droplets of red blood and our call that not smoke in bachelor. Now Larry I'm gonna ask that I'm gonna ask you paused for a moment. Iran and I wanna find out. What what. What Michael Peterson thinks about this wanna find out what David Rudolph the attorney thinks about this but first of all wanna mention. That extra sauce is presented by road nicer and reorganize there is far and above. The guys that I use on comes to anything HB AC related anything electrical related and and plumbing related so we're gonna take a break. And be right back. After we hear from after we hear from her organizer. Organizers growing and actively seeking to hire teams of experienced HB AC and plumbing technicians as well as electricians right now they offer endless benefits full health and dental insurance a generous 401K plan three weeks paid time off and even tuition reimbursement so what can you do how about heading over to road Anheuser dot com it will apply now are ode and HI SER quit your job and start a career with the road Anheuser and now let's get to the show. Larry thanks for waiting so out why he went askew at this owl attack happened. Why didn't Michael Peterson who was out of the pool Hewitt. Popular today than living here percent over the years I'm familiar with that territory out familiar with but how are familiar with the area where he claimed to have banned during this. And all the evidence there's been presented at prowl. He's very consistent in saying that he was out baba swimming pool. The swimming pool is on the cedar street. Of that mansion. It'd save a very large. House. Probably 6078. If they thousands where they he has only. Of this house. Where this occurred and that relates Elton. If not. Who what was splashing war Doral and that's while the little animals go running around late in the war latching. Both countries the war but how about now. Movie stays out but here it is right and me evening at an evening that so BP papacy the sound birdies. And it lipped about it bar. At bat when this incident happens in my opinion. True is on the other side of the large Apple's. He has gone back the end after leaving him at the pool. Or go back enthused. Get ready for paper that is presently coming in the next morning. He returns than the terrorists you probably picked up the pop up boxes. And we're going to take them out to be. Worked their opinions the garbage cans out all the big here early. I house. Where that garbage Indians were located. I'll laugh out there on the other side. Of the circular. And when she's moving the trial. They get struck in the back of it she does not here they'll arming. The car the others are there wing. They are silently. And then this bird hit serves silently by him and backed the right corner of the hit and yep that and they in the gripping process with the at all. The outlook com. Entangled. In. Where is grew. Well our first goal and that lacerations or going down the back of her here but I think the blood vessels. And gripping the air that this is what is really important. That was owls who had better legs. The like the landing gear up well airplane. As bad as what holes that tend and so tight. End when I call it out like battle when it just absorbs the shock value. It allows web gripping mechanism would take place and it also locks. But balance they have like I ratchet. In their elbows so to speak and bank cannot open their arms. Until they get back to that Barack. And I'm proud of that talent but are there are stretching their legs out straight again and that release is that locking mechanism. And that's when they can let go of their prey and start to eat it or cut it up and needed to be here you are wrong in the best. That is he an understanding. The mechanics of this whole thing he has really stop and grab that I'll buy it for eight. And that I hours trying desperately to get out of here. Al are all very popular with their ratings and what they do they should work and when they jerked out that's how you have meaning Ayers. They're being yanked out Bob root ball. And our crowd. And bar open all the way of those things that I broke spoke could not businesses. Then there are well. Are outside the police videotape. Is evidence of that the broad clearly clearly it's an Al bell MacArthur. Bobbitt. Is so. It looked like that they brought there's been stuck into a bucket of blood. And we shouldn't get so that their days at eight in the bottom of it. Do you. Earns this really what it's coming down the cause of the app that work but she doesn't know. Really what it is that's Taylor into the back where they don't operate if but we're gonna look at any bank. I assume that a species and a lot of pain there is being pulled and she. Burned around and I ain't. And I wish he'd iTunes backwards. But I. Is an whiplash action and that slaying Bryant. Over the wall bat while you get there and thousands spots of blood all the law at all. Not this booting with a blow poke not a ban ban on the steps. You have to have that it is to have a year so don't do blood lie and brought they've got their that's their day. And that the missing piece that nobody asked about. That is where we are here it is being blown backwards. While falling backward into that stairwell and pay me. And she's bankruptcies in the bottom of that stairwell. And and she is an awkward position leaning up against the bottom wall you clearly see in the pictures. That brought this coming down in a triangular pattern all that wall. Who all his there's bringing damn thing and another spot on the other wall. Now she's always there for a long period of bleeding. And you know that they call the police videotape that shows you the pictures. Are well poor Brad the issue saying. Sending you Rebecca later. Also you sushi. All the settles over the week and I'm making fools of work beat. The only way to get blown out on the soles and heels of your city. Is suspected it now. You have to have the regained consciousness after laying bare from many many minutes. There are losing. And she has had alcohol. Valium and like so real in her blood system. As the very power full chemical compound that haven't won that's why he's under so if she's laying there and she's in shock. And they know he's been shocked. The evidence from the autopsy report clearly says. Other brains are good neurosurgeon said that there were written on its. Found in her brain a crisis and that is very clear indication of low blood pressure and shocked. And that's why he's right there prolonged period of now I basically she's definitely up. To regain consciousness. And stand up but she's an awkward position on that in about that there will issue could you brought against that wall with our right. And roll out. All the upper part of nor would help as well. In person and get that while trying to get leverage there to help understand that option that we week in government and brought to these things and he says that expand. In which he does he steps into their pool of our blood. And William Blair in his own words it's very slippery and duly. Debating. It all backwards again she slips. Goes backwards. It's. Again the core of well. Balding at the bottom of the stair case against the very last lacerations. That is under acquire all of Barbara did in the back is your your crown underneath they're way blow poke could not have reached. Bill could have made the pattern that is so of course scout which you clearly see it and they. Photographs of the rooms. Larry were you ever able to discuss this theory we Michael Peterson's attorney David Rudolph. I tried to contact mr. Rudolph but they were busy preparing for their oral arguments to the juror. And that I hit it I had all those state bar. Of the prospect bark for attorneys. And it as part of the minister what I should do with the evidence that was in the late in the trial and that the I spoke with out my who is the epic. Expert on the North Carolina State ball. He directed me to take this evidence that broke the defense council and the district attorney I immediately. And I haven't felt well you know that make an argument to the jury right now act in got to do a run in the event I've got to wait until they're through. And that is exactly what I did I had bad debt with Hamas are there was co counsel with mr. Rudolph. To the that they had though given their all argument. But they were not interested in changing horses at the end of the stream and I cannot blame him for that. Are they out bank acted responsibly. Even though the evidence was. Very powerful and compelling. I couldn't fault them for that. I was trying to if I wish I were out of Canada earlier and bank of it and they have an endeavor that a deep for trial but I think that it let me. The pro all of these pieces together and I put it together from the bite that you outburst. On day two of the October. 08 or nine. In the problem. They had all the union that fit together and a bit because they have now since that. I have met the debate with mr. Rudolph. Who'd had left town after the verdict. And he didn't return for a couple of weeks we'll really came back we met with him and showed him this. And I think until he was very. Interstate and if he were reckon any. I totally absorb it. And that they think it will now know to give the Scot Pollard any credibility or not. And the district attorney there and started when we're here in Munich credibility of the power levels we have ever think of what it. After. I thank you it to them they decided they were not gonna raise the issues. And appeal simply put calls but all of that had been introduced at a problem and that is correct. They didn't get an opportunity. Introduce that at the trop. Brett. After two years of waiting to. Or sort of appeals and they have a very very important. To come back and say this was prepared this that the other. And not getting any relief. Mr. Peterson heard about the the how busy you heard about it from Hispanic neighbors I've written. Editorial included in the newspaper on January 24 2002. It was only editorial page with a picture of an Al. And I had told everybody. What I'll stay in the attic hurt I had been all over town it's been all over. The newspapers and they were quickly. Ridiculing the Al period writing editorials about working for the trial. And banking on will be. They taking pictures of Al including crawl payers over the rebels stickers and stick in a moment glass doors than a courthouse. And prejudicial pretrial. Publicity. Was expansive. In this case is win and and let's go right. That being the case you have Brooke writers that were riding. Brooks about this case you have all the TV channels. There were not think they twenty we needed three or four. Different episodes. And believe me about it. And so there's been a Baptist. Or I have put it in the newspaper I have been to a federal judge. Ask that they ended as the pistons Zelda. For some of the evidence that I had to go Powell. And that this day and be able to legally possess it at that I don't know locked in Britain. More than that and as far as I was concerned it was a colossal. Rush the judgment. And it was my obligation. My responsibility. And not through the the brain but felt that I. I have an obligation. To call Ryan and his next door neighbor. And I have a question. And I believe that the good Brooks who has been around others as you would have been drug use. Help your neighbor. There have been and witness against him. I can't go out and allow their reward do anything like that and what are proud with a lower pay well and lower that I had taken them. But he. And it says that lawyers are ministers of justice. And then left brain there are things that Baghdad. At a crime or anything else if Baghdad if that is relevant. And something that should be brought forward to the parties. And back is what I did. I did what I think is right and Molly Line. And I did the right thing and it now I'm in the past that its stake in sixteen years. For anybody to really pay any attention to. Larry it is a fascinating. Theory. And the evidence and the work you've put into it those of us have been assessing the staircase are. Very very fascinated with your theory Larry and I thank you for joining us and giving us a little bit of extra sauce. On the Peterson situation and the Netflix. Documentary the staircase I can. Are. So what do you think. I I totally by his theory I mean I'm I'm watched most of of the staircase and just looking at the wounds. Explaining. The war the feathers is really want is amazing since owls are the only ones who have those kind of gathers. And there in there clumps of hair yeah. It's just I I'm it's completely believable and that's a guy who was found guilty and did 89 years in jail right for whatever it was wife and a it was it would it wasn't him it was it was the bird they did it yeah as as I just heard it was the burden that did I I am very convinced. I'm totally convince you know and I also if you watch it does spoil alert you you realize there's a bias towards Michael Peterson. Yeah because he ran for mayor in Durham used to write for the newspaper unions say some he says some Leo. Cree has some criticisms of some local authority as police wise that generally and that it was a weird dude I write this here's a century is a weird and there's other things that I think that could have been biased yeah that that I was dragged on the. Branson and but this Powell thing police it's unbelievable yeah. Now we know. Did the actual crime majestic and it was a bad joke about it and India. All right thanks guerrillas things we do exercise. Will be back again with another episode. If you graduated. Leases. On iTunes. Clay court.